THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR 'THIS WEEK' on February 19, 2017 and it will be updated.
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS: And we’re joined now by Congressman Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Schiff. Thank you for joining us. REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA, RANKING MEMBER OF THE HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: You bet.
KARL: So I want to get to the Intelligence Committee’s investigation into the Russian interference into the election but first a more immediate issue -- the president has denounced ongoing leaks, he thinks they’re coming from the intelligence community. But what I want to ask you, doesn’t he have a point and we have a situation now where the president holds calls with foreign leaders and not long after his details of those calls are there to be read by everybody in the newspapers. And you concerned about these leaks?
SCHIFF: Oh, I am concerned about the leaks, whether it’s on the phone calls or leaks pertaining to any investigation into Russian activities in United States or the Flynn investigation. So yes, there is a point.
At the same time two things concern me, the first is that he turned these leaks, this this problem with leaks into attack on his enemies, he is now describing the press in terms that we’ve never heard or at least not since Nixon and probably not even in terms of Nixon would subscribe to, that is deeply concerning that he’s essentially using this to go after his enemies.
But more broadly than that we cannot lose sight of what’s really at stake here and that is that Russia is leading a movement around the world to spread autocracy and authoritarianism. They’re interfering obviously in our elections but in the elections here in Europe, here in Munich there is deep concern about Russia’s new bellicosity and the fact that they need a strong America to push back and they need to be reassured of that and when the president focuses on a fight with the press we’re – we’re investigating leaks but doesn’t seem committed to standing up to what Russia is doing at home and around the world that is of profound concern.
KARL: But is there a sense that, that there are elements of the intelligence community that frankly are out to get the president? I mean he clearly thinks so.
SCHIFF: No. I don’t have that understanding at all. The intelligence community is very professional, they do their jobs well, they are the best intelligence gatherers in the world, their dedicated, patriotic Americans, they will work with any president, they want to have a good relationship with every president.
The members of Congress, we are the consumers of their work product but there’s one consumer that they prize the most and that’s the president of the United States, they want them to read their work product, they want him to rely on their work product so they want to have a good relationship.
And I think these broadsides against the intelligence community are deeply counterproductive, they hurt morale and also make it difficult for our – frankly our agents to do their jobs, our officers to do their jobs and get out and recruit people around the world because they’re asking people to put their lives on the line and how can they do that if they don’t believe the president of the United States is going to value the work product that comes out of those risks.
KARL: You called for General Flynn to testify before Congress. What do you want to ask him?
SCHIFF: Well, I’d like to ask him whether that conversation he had with the Russian ambassador was a one-off conversation or there were others, who in the White House instructed him to have those conversations, whether he debriefed people in the administration after those conversations; essentially who was aware that he had reported falsely to the vice president and the vice president in turn had misled the American people.
And I think at the heart of this Jon is the fact that – and I think this is I think central to the president calling for a leak investigation is the president didn’t want to fire Mike Flynn but when the press exposed that falsehood he felt compelled to do so. Because of course the president knew weeks ago, and weeks before Flynn was let go that he had misled the vice president and in turn misled the country and the president was okay with that, it was only when it was disclosed that he had a problem.
And that’s what he’s upset about and that makes this different in kind than some of the other leak investigations we’ve had where we have investigated people who leaked secrets that undermined our country because they gave up valuable sources of information. This is not in that category, this is in the category of wrongdoing that was exposed. I still don’t countenance leaks but it’s a very different situation and the leaks that have damaged or national security, in this case they’re – it was a leak that expose malfeasance by the administration and that’s really what bothers the president of the United States.
KARL: But you’re in Munich now, you’re there for Senator McCain’s remarkable speech where he actually said, suggested that the West itself may be at risk. What was the reaction from our European allies to what McCain had to say?
SCHIFF: You know, I read his speech, we were in flight at the time he gave it and it was very powerful. But I can tell you the reaction to the vice president’s speech because I was there for that and I have to say it was very subdued.
There’s a lot of concern here about just who speaks for the administration and even certainly when things when a vice president and others say the right things, they wonder does the president stand behind this. I wish the vice president had given the kind of speech that John McCain gave because I think that would’ve done a lot to reassure all of the NATO members here, European allies and others that are here today.
KARL: But wait a minute, Vice President Pence said quite clearly in that speech that the United States is with NATO, you’re saying that people didn’t buy it?
SCHIFF: And Nikki Haley said that that we don’t recognize Russia’s annexation of Crimea but that still begs the question, is the vice president or Nikki Haley really speaking for the president? I think certainly here at the conference when Mike Pence said that we want NATO members to pay up, then you in that case he was speaking for the president but when he talked about American commitment to NATO, when he talked about the commitment to Europe, I think they’re still profound questions about whether he is, in those cases really speaking for the president or speaking for himself.
KARL: Let me ask you, what do you say when the Europeans or other allies raise concerns with you about the president’s temperament or his stance on these issues, what do you say to reassure our allies?
SCHIFF: What I say is that there is very strong bipartisan support and belief in international law, in international institutions, in Europe, in NATO, in United Nations. We recognize how much we’ve benefited, we recognize the threat that Russia poses and we stand shoulder to shoulder with you; the American ideal is not dead, the idea of America is not dead, it is alive and well and it is bigger than any one man even when that one man is the president of the United States.
KARL: And finally, I want to ask your reaction to the president coming out and calling the news media quote, "The enemies of the American people"?
SCHIFF: Well I didn’t think I could be shocked anymore by this president but I have to say, of all the things you said since he became president or since the election, this to me was the most devastating and the most alarming that he essentially views the First Amendment -- because that’s what these organizations represent -- as an enemy of the people.
This is something that you hear tin-pot dictators say when they want to control all of the information. It’s not something you’ve ever heard a president of the United States say, not even Nixon went there and it is deeply concerning. I hope it is repudiated by people from both parties because this is not America.
KARL: Well, as you know Senator McCain said that – he warned it’s – there’s this flirting with authoritarianism in the United States and he said dictators, quote, "Get started by suppressing free press." I gather you don’t think that’s hyperbolic, you think there’s a risk of that actually here in the United States?
SCHIFF: I do think there’s a risk of that. I think John McCain is exactly right. And I think what we’re confronting now is a ‘new war of ideas,’ it’s not communism versus capitalism but it is authoritarianism versus democracy and representative government and that’s a threat that hear in Europe they feel acutely, they’ve seen their countries interfered with, bombarded by cyber-attacks, by Russian propaganda, indeed by Russian troops.
And in the United States the admiration for Putin, the admiration for the architect of that has many subscribers, in part, the president admires that so there is a risk; John McCain is exactly right and the message he delivered here is exactly the message America needs to send to Europe because it’s the right one. This isn’t what America stands for and I was very proud to see what John McCain said.
KARL: You know, quite an assessment. Congressman Schiff, thank you for joining us.
SCHIFF: Thank you.
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