THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR 'THIS WEEK' ON October 2, 2016 and it will be updated.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: And now we’re joined by Mr. Trump’s advisor, former mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani. Thank you for coming in again.
RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Hi George, good morning.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what’s your response to this story?
GIULIANI: My response is he’s a genius. I mean, the reality is --
STEPHANOPOULOS: A genius?
GIULIANI: Absolute genius. I mean, the man in "The Art of the Deal" this is described. First of all, we’re talking about 26 years ago, perfectly legal. We should get that straight immediately. This is a perfectly legal application of the tax code. And he would’ve been fool not to take advantage of it. Not only that, he would’ve probably breached his fiduciary duty to his investors, to his business. You have an obligation when you run a business to maximize the profits. And if there is a tax law that says I can deduct this, you deduct it. If you fail to deduct it, people can sue you. Your investors can sue you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You say though he’s a genius.
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Here’s what Robby Mook from the Clinton campaign says. It says -- he says "it reveals the colossal nature of Donald Trump’s past business failures. He apparently got to avoid paying taxes for nearly two decades while tens of millions of working families paid theirs."
GIULIANI: OK, well, first of all that’s not clear that it’s a -- in other words, what was the loss, 1.8 billion?
STEPHANOPOULOS: $916 million.
GIULIANI: $916 million, well, last year for example he made $625 million. So if he had one year in which he made $1 billion, he would’ve wiped out the loss carried over in one year. So it’s unlikely that he carried forward for 18 years. That’s the amount income he was making.
Second, every great man has had failures. In "The Art of the Deal" he explains that. Churchill was thrown out of office twice. Steve Jobs was fired from Apple and had nothing. The reality is this man, 26 years ago, had some failures, and then he built an empire. I like that working for me, for the United States.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How come --
GIULIANI: He’s a genius at how to take advantage of legal remedies that can help your company survive and grow. I want a man who’s a genius at figuring out how to take this country, that’s -- moving in the wrong direction, where we’ve had a basically jobless recovery, where we’ve had growth of less than 2 percent for two years. That’s pathetic! Don’t you think a man who has this kind of economic genius is a lot better for the United States than a woman, and the only thing she’s ever produced is a lot of work for the FBI checking out her e-mails.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You say it shows that he’s a genius, but Mr. Trump himself in the past has criticized people for not paying taxes. He has tweet from 2012: "Half of Americans don’t pay income tax despite crippling government debt." And even in this campaign, he’s taked on -- taken on hedge fund managers who avoided taxes. Let’s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The hedge fund guys are getting away with murder. They make a fortune, they pay no tax. It’s ridiculous, OK? I know people that are making a tremendous amount of money and paying virtually tax and I think it’s unfair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: So why is this fair?
GIULIANI: Well, whether it’s fair or not, if I run a company -- and I do, right? And there are five deductions that are available to me, and I don’t take them, the people who invested in my company can sue for not doing that. And number two, my obligation in that circumstance is to make the maximum amount of money and to save my company from the maximum amount of damage. He was genius in being able to do that.
Went down, came all the way back up. America needs turnaround right now, and Donald Trump is a turnaround artist. Everyone believes 667 (ph) have been moving in the wrong direction. Nobody believes that Hillary Clinton can turn America around. It’s going to be Obama 2, Obama 3, whatever you want to call it. Higher taxes, less jobs, 1 percent growth. We put our head down and we’re just another country, oh gee, gee.
This man is a man who knows what it feels like to fail and then how to come back from that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The statement from the Trump campaign doesn’t say that he paid federal income taxes over those 18 years. Did he?
GIULIANI: I haven’t seen his tax -- I’m not his lawyer. I haven’t seen his tax returns. I would suspect that he did because that kind of loss that you’re looking at, given the income that I saw in his financial disclosure form, would say to me that he probably paid off that carry forward very, very quickly.
Look, I have clients with carry forwards are twice that, three times that. This is part of what you’re doing business. If you -- and if you didn’t do it, you would be sued.
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: But doesn’t this increase the pressure on Mr. Trump to release those taxes? No presidential candidate in a generation has not released the taxes.
GIULIANI: Well, you know what it does do? It actually suggests maybe why he doesn’t, because nobody understands the tax code and then they use it as if there’s -- there’s something wrong here. This is perfectly legal and he was in a box. If he didn’t do it, he’d get sued. You --
STEPHANOPOULOS: So suggesting he doesn’t want people to know that he (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK0
GIULIANI: If you give me -- if you give me your money, right? If you give me your money, and I start a business, and there are five deductions available to me, and I say well I’m not going to take advantage of two of them because it may make -- make you -- may make me look bad when I’m running for president or something else, then you’re going to sue me for not taking advantage of that deduction. That is what happened here.
And it shows you what a genius he is, how smart he is, how intelligent he is, how strategic he is. I want that working for me. I want to see if he can produce these kinds of results for us --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But he’s not going to produce the returns?
GIULIANI: He’s going to produce the returns when the audit is finished so that everything is clarified so that people can’t misinterpret what he did.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the returns from 2002 to 2008 are not --
GIULIANI: And remember --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- under audit right now.
GIULIANI: Remember, this man has been audited every year. Never once has a criminal charge been brought against him, never once has he been accused of violating the law. He operates. He understands the law. He operates within it. And he also understands, on the other side, how he can get sued if he doesn’t take advantage of these benefits.
I would rather have a person who understands the economy and is a turnaround artist than a person that is a failure, basically, as Secretary of State.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let’s move on to last night. You saw we showed in the piece earlier Mr. Trump mocking Hillary Clinton and that bout with pneumonia, also questioning whether she was loyal to President Clinton in their marriage. Is that a smart strategy?
GIULIANI: I didn’t see last night so I’m not -- I’m not -- I’m not sure -- I’m not sure about that. But the reality is that she, at the end of the debate, and I think "Saturday Night Live" last night captured it beautifully, when she said, oh, and by the way -- and then she mentioned the woman’s name, the model’s name, and then she made it appear as if Lester Holt had brought it up. She had obviously been programmed to bring that up, so she -- she brings --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But Trump took the bait, didn’t he?
GIULIANI: She brings up -- she brings up this woman. This woman goes back 20 years or so. She had a very unfortunate past. She was a driver in a bank robbery. She -- never mind all about her. But the reality is that that was something that she brought. She brought that into this. She brought personal life into this.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But he brought it up every single day since then. I’m asking was that smart?
GIULIANI: Uh…I can’t tell you whether it was smart or not, I think she’s the one who introduced it. And we’ll find out by who wins the election whether it was smart or not. But I don’t think -- I don’t think I would’ve stood by for a personal attack. You want to bring personality into it, Hillary, and your husband has the history that he has, and you have a history of attacking the women that -- the only women victim she doesn’t believe are the ones who say they were victimized by her husband. And we have, I don’t know, 20? 30? 40?
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, whenever this has come up in campaigns in the past -- you go back to 1998, during impeachment, House Republicans pursuing it, they lose seats. Your own advisors, when you were thinking about running for Senate looked into bringing this up in the Senate race and said it would’ve been bad idea.
GIULIANI: Well, you know, I think it is a bad idea to focus on President Clinton’s personal life. That’s his personal life. It is not a bad idea to point out her hypocrisy. Her hypocrisy, if -- I mean, she’s attacking Donald Trump about how he deals with women. Well, then, we have to respond by how she deals with women. Which is to take money from governments that kill women, take money from governments that stone women, take governments -- take money from governments that have women who can’t drive cars. Not just money, millions and tens of millions of dollars from countries in which women are treated like property and killed when they get raped.
And so now basically it’s don’t lecture me, Hillary, on feminism, because you’re a phony.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You suggested earlier in this week that Donald Trump might not go -- maybe shouldn’t go to the second debate.
GIULIANI: Did I really?
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: You did because you said it wasn’t fair. But is he going to go?
GIULIANI: Of course, yes. No, there’s no question he’s going to the second debate. If I said anything to suggest the opposite, that is not what intended. I probably wanted to point out that I thought the first debate was extremely unfair because the only time Lester Holt ever interrupted to correct people was to correct Donald Trump. He was wrong about stop and frisk; everyone acknowledges now that he was wrong about it. Stop and frisk, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, was constitutional.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Which is not the way it was being done in New York at the time.
(CROSSTALK)
GIULIANI: That happens all the time! I mean, if a person -- if a person does a -- a home inva -- a search of your home, and doesn’t follow the constitution, that’s unconstitution (sic). But doesn’t make unconstitutional. That makes it unconstitutional as applied.
Hillary Clinton knows that. OK, she fudged it. Lester Holt didn’t know it and he shouldn’t pretend to know it.
Now she misrepresented about TPP. She had said it was a gold standard, and she said, no, I only suggested it was and I wasn’t really -- and she had a made a very definitive statement. He never corrected her. Why?
STEPHANOPOULOS: So Mr. Trump will be there next Sunday.
GIULIANI: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks for coming in.
GIULIANI: Thank you.
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