'This Week' Transcript: Donald Trump and Sen. Bernie Sanders

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR 'THIS WEEK' ON March 27, 2016 and it will be updated.

JONATHAN KARL, ABC HOST: And Donald Trump joins me on the phone right now.

Mr. Trump, thank you and Happy Easter.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: OK.

You, too.

KARL: So I want to get to some policy issues.

But first, I've got to ask you about this nasty fight that has broken out between you and Ted Cruz.

Do you categorically guarantee that nobody on your campaign, nobody tied to your campaign, had anything to do with this "National Enquirer" story?

TRUMP: Totally. I had nothing to do with it. The campaign had absolutely nothing to do with it. He's got a problem with "The National Enquirer." I have no control over "The National Enquirer." I didn't even know about the story. I just got it last night. Somebody sent it to me over to read, so I could at least see what it said.

I had nothing to do whatsoever with "The National Enquirer." And neither did the campaign. And I will tell you, for him to try and say that I had to do with it, to try and put the shoe on the other foot is disgraceful.

And by the way, he's the one that started it. And from what I hear, he and his campaign went out and bought the cover shoot. She did a -- Melania did a cover story for "GQ," a very strong modeling picture. No big deal.

But it was a cover story for "GQ," a big magazine. And it was, you know, fine. And from what I hear, somebody bought the -- the rights to it and he was the one or his campaign bought the rights and they gave it to the super PAC.

And just so you understand, that super PAC is very friendly to Ted Cruz. He knew all about it, 100 percent. So he started it. I didn't start it.

KARL: Let me ask you, this story, this -- that we see in "The National Enquirer," this kind of rumor-mongering, should this kind of thing just be off limits?

Do you condemn this story?

TRUMP: I don't care. I'm really, I don't care. "The National Enquirer" did a story. It was their story. It wasn't my story. It was about Ted Cruz. I have no idea whether it was right or not. They actually have a very good record of being right. But I have absolutely no idea.

Frankly, I said, I hope it's not right.

KARL: Let's go back to the -- the thing that started this all off. You mentioned it, of course, to -- in fairness, you did not start this. This started with the super PAC ad featuring Melania.

But in response...

TRUMP: And he's very close to the super PAC, just so you understand. And there's no way in a million years that super PAC did that without his absolute knowledge.

Don't forget, I call him "Lying Ted." I call him that because nobody that I've known -- I've known a lot tougher people over the years in business, but I've never known anybody that lied like Ted Cruz.

KARL: But let me ask you, though, because in response, you said in that -- in that Tweet that you would spill the beans on Heidi Cruz.

What did you mean by that, spill -- spill what beans?

TRUMP: Well, there are things about Heidi that I don't want to talk about, but I'm not going to talk about them. I mean, you know, you can look, but I wouldn't talk about them.

KARL: What really set Cruz off was when you re-Tweeted that -- that photo, that unflattering photo of Heidi Cruz...

TRUMP: Well, it was a re-Tweet that somebody sent to me. And it was a re-Tweet. Now, look, what he did was far worse. I mean he takes out a thing and sends it to Utah, to the voters of Utah. And it was a cover shot and it was, you know, by a big magazine. She was a very, very successful model, a big model, and did lots of shoots and lots of cover shoots. And to send that like it was some kind of a bad picture was disgusting to me.

I thought it was disgusting. And they put the -- you know, they -- they make me like the bad guy here. I'm just responding to what he does. I respond. I counter-punch. But I'm responding to what he does. But always, the press likes to make me the bad guy.

He's the one that started it. He knew about the picture. He may have even bought the rights to the picture, meaning his campaign. And the super PAC had it. He's very close to the super PAC. I didn't start this, he did.

KARL: You know, a lot of people watch this and they see the way you've responded. And you call yourself a counter-pulture -- puncher. And it did start with that super PAC.

But they wonder, would you act this way as president of the United States?

Would you be doing late night Twitter wars with world leaders, uh, who -- who insulted you?

TRUMP: It's a new way of communicating. It's very effective. I've been very effective with it. I have -- between that and Facebook, I have like 15 or 16 million followers. It's a great way of communicating.

Now, other people don't like it, because they have 15 followers. I have between that and Instagram, I have probably close to 16 million followers.

And frankly, it's a great way of communicating, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not going to be doing it very much as president. I will say, uh, you know, I will -- I will act in the best interests of our country. I will act to protect our country, whether that's counter-punching or not. Our country is going to be protected, not like it is now, where we have nobody at the helm, where we have nobody protecting the interests of our country, where we're being ripped off by every single nation in the world and we can't even beat ISIS at war.

KARL: OK, let's turn to the attacks in Brussels. The State Department has issued an extraordinary warning for all of Europe.

Do you think that Europe, right now, is a safe place for Americans to travel?

TRUMP: Well, I'm the only one that predicted it. I said Brussels is a hellhole and "The New York Times" mocked me and -- and said, a couple of months ago, "The New York Times" did a big story about how dare Donald Trump say Brussels is a hellhole, how dare they?

And then all of a sudden, it came out the attack took place in Brussels.

I understand what's going on around the world far better than these politicians do. I'm all over it.

KARL: But (INAUDIBLE)...

TRUMP: And I have friends that are all over the world.

I will tell you, I was -- I was really hit hard by "The New York Times" in an article, how dare I attack Brussels?

And now this happened. And, you know, the biggest thing on the Internet, one of the big things on the Internet was that Trump was 100 percent right about Brussels.

KARL: But -- but right now, do you think that Brussels is -- that Europe is a safe place for Americans?

More to the point, would you feel comfortable traveling to Europe right now with your family?

TRUMP: I don't think America is a safe place for Americans, if you want to know the truth. I don't think Bruss -- England or I don't think that Europe is a safe place. No, I don't. I think there are a lot of problems in Europe that are very, very severe.

Weak -- you know, the -- lots of the free world has become weak. When you look at Brussels, when you look at the way they've handled things from law enforcement standpoints, when you look at Paris, when you look at so many other places, no, it's not.

But neither is the United States a safe place, because we're allowing thousands of people to come in here. Nobody knows where they're from. Nobody knows who they are and they're coming in here by the thousands. And let me tell you something, we're going to have problems -- for -- just as big or bigger than they've got.

KARL: Now, you -- you gave a series of interviews, "New York Times," "Washington Post," on -- on foreign policy. In both of those, you suggested that NATO, uh, needs to do more to carry its weight.

I want to ask you about NATO code -- NATO's Article Five on collective defense, which, of course, goes back to the very beginning of the cold war.

Is that something that is simply out of date and needs to be maybe done away with?

TRUMP: I think NATO is obsolete. NATO was done at a time you had the Soviet Union, which was obviously larger -- much larger than Russia is today. I'm not saying Russia is not a threat.

But we have other threats. We have the threat of terrorism. And NATO doesn't discuss terrorism. NATO's not meant for terrorism. NATO doesn't have the right countries in it for terrorism.

And what I'm saying is that we pay, number one, a totally disproportionate share of NATO. We're spending -- the biggest alliance share is paid for by us, disproportionate to other countries.

And if you look at the Ukraine, we're the ones always fighting on the Ukraine. I never hear any other countries even mentioned and we're fighting constantly. We're talking about Ukraine, get out, do this, do that.

And I mean Ukraine is very far away from us.

How come the countries near the Ukraine, surrounding the Ukraine, how come they're not opening up and they're not at least protesting?

I never hear anything from anybody except the United States.

What I'm saying is NATO is obsolete. NATO is -- is obsolete and it's extremely expensive for the United States, disproportionately so. And we should readjust NATO.

And it's going to have to be either readjusted to take care of terrorism. Or we're going to have to set up a new -- a new coalition, a new group of -- of the countries to handle terrorism, because ter -- terrorism is out of control.

KARL: But Ukraine is not a member of NATO. I mean there are no U.S. troops involved in Ukraine.

TRUMP: I'm not saying they're a member. What I'm saying about Ukraine is when we want to protect -- you know, when we're -- we're talk -- when Russia is going into Ukraine, we immediately get NATO.

I don't hear from the other countries. I don't hear that having to do with Ukraine. I don't hear from the other countries in NATO. I don't hear from Germany. I don't hear from -- I only hear from the United States.

We've got to, you know, do this and we're constantly telling Russia what to do. And it's all fine if everybody partakes. But I don't see other people partaking.

And then you say why are we paying -- Jon, why are we paying disproportionately the costs of NATO?

We're paying a tremendous amount more than we should be from the standpoint of proportion.

So, uh, I look at, I look at the fact that it was a long time ago.

You know, there's nothing wrong with saying that a concept was good, but now it's obsolete or now it's outmoded.

Now, it can be trimmed up and it can be, uh, it can be reconfigured and you can call it NATO, but it's going to be changed. I mean this thing was -- was done many decades ago. And there's nothing wrong with saying it's obsolete. But it is obsolete.

And, by the way, I took a lot of heat for saying that and now everyone is agreeing with me. I mean I'm reading -- I'm reading pages of -- of, uh, of media where now people are agreeing with me.

I always take heat. I mean I -- I listened to somebody this morning on one of your competing channels talking about "The Washington Post." I gave a very good interview to "The Washington Post." And frankly, uh, I thought it was very good.

You know, it's very interesting, everybody was knocking on NATO, like they do usually -- when I talk about -- when I talk about illegal immigration. I went -- I went through hell with illegal immigration. Now everyone is saying Trump is right.

When I talked about the problems that we have with trade. Now they're all saying Trump is right. The same thing with NATO.

When I did that, two days I took abuse from the media falsely. Now, people are saying -- many, many people are saying, you know, Trump is right. He's absolutely right about NATO.

KARL: Let me ask you, you've said that, um, Islam is at war with us. A lot of people wonder, uh, given some of your proposals, whether or not you would go the next step toward internment camps. Uh, and I know you've never proposed that.

But let me just ask you here now, would you categorically rule out the idea of internment camps for American Muslims?

Is that something...

TRUMP: I would rule...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: -- I would rule it out, but we would have to be very vigilant. We're going to have to be very smart.

KARL: OK.

TRUMP: We're going to have to be very rigid, very vigilant. And if we're not very, very strong and very, very smart, we have a big, big problem coming up. We've already had the problem. Check out the World Trade Center, OK.

KARL: Right.

TRUMP: Check out the Pentagon. We've already had the problem.

KARL: So -- so what...

TRUMP: But...

KARL: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: -- but I would -- I would say you have to be extremely strong. You have to keep your eyes open. And, by the way, Muslims in our country have to report bade acts, OK?

When you look at what happened in Europe, in Brussels, where many, many people knew this thug from last week was -- was living right in the midst of them, right only a few doors down from where he was living previously, they knew he was there. Nobody reported him.

KARL: OK, so let me ask you about a petition you may have seen that is gaining strength now with more than 30,000 signatures, that is calling on the Republican National Committee to allow delegates at the convention in Cleveland to exercise their Second Amendment rights by carrying guns to the convention. They have put this petition. They are calling on presidential candidates like you, to, quote, "call upon the RNC to rectify this affront to our Second Amendment freedoms and insist upon a suspension of the Quicken Loans Arena unconditional gun-free zone.

So let me ask you, what do you think?

Should delegates to the Republican convention be allowed to bring guns?

TRUMP: I haven't seen the petition at all. You're -- I'm hearing it now for the first time. I will certainly take a look at it and I'll let you know. But I have not seen the petition.

KARL: So you're open to the idea of -- of...

TRUMP: I have -- I have not seen the petition. I want to see what it says. I want to read the fine print. I have to see what it says. I'm a very, very strong person for Second Amendment. I think very few people are stronger. And I have to see the petition.

But I'm not going to comment to you when I haven't seen it. Just give me a few words.

KARL: OK, because you -- you are a -- as you said, probably the biggest critic of gun-free zones of any of the candidates. Uh, but as you said, very strong on the Second Amendment.

Forget the petition, what do you think of this idea of having delegates be able to carry guns, exercise their Second Amendment right -- right there...

TRUMP: I don't want to forget the petition. I don't want to -- I don't want to forget the petition, because you're talking about a petition. I will take a look at it.

It's the first I hear about it -- of it, and frankly, you know, nobody is stronger on the Second Amendment than me.

But I would like to take a look at it.

KARL: OK. Now, you're getting closer and closer to getting the delegates you need to clinch the nomination. But look at what happened in Louisiana. You won the state of Louisiana. But it looks like Ted Cruz is coming out of there with more delegates, maybe as many as 10 more delegates. And he's getting them on the key committees that will write the rules for the Republican convention.

Is Ted Cruz trying to steal this nomination from you?

TRUMP: Well, it tells you what a crooked system we have and what a rotten political system we have. And frankly, I'm so -- I'm millions of votes more than -- I have millions of votes more than "Lying Ted." I have millions -- millions of votes more.

I have many, many delegates more. I've won areas. And he's trying to steal things because that's the way Ted works, OK. Uh, the system is a broken system. The Republican tabulation system is a broken system. It's not fair.

I have so many millions of votes more. I've brought people into this party by the millions. You understand that. They voted by the millions more. It's one of the biggest stories in all of politics.

And what do I have?

I have a guy going around trying to steal people's delegates. This is supposed to be America, a free America. This is supposed to be a system of votes where you go out, you have elections, free elections, not elections where I won.

I won Louisiana and now I hear he's trying to steal delegates. You know, welcome to, uh, the Republican Party.

What's going on in the Republican Party is a disgrace. I have so many more votes and so many more delegates. And, frankly, whoever at the end, whoever has the most votes and the most delegates should be the nominee. And I will beat Hillary Clinton. I haven't even started on Hillary Clinton yet. I haven't even -- I only had one little skirmish with her about two months ago and she didn't come out so well.

I haven't even started on Hillary Clinton yet. I'm only focused on the two people I have left.

KARL: All right, Donald Trump, thank you so much for joining us on this Easter Sunday.

Before you go, let me just ask you, uh, what does this holiday -- what does Easter mean to you?

What's the Trump family Easter tradition?

TRUMP: Well, it really means something very special. I'm going to church in an hour from now and it's going to be -- it's a beautiful church. I'm in Florida.

And it's just a very special time for me. And it really represents family and get-together and -- and something, you know, if you're a -- a Christian, it's just a very important day.

KARL: All right, Donald Trump, thank you very much.

TRUMP: OK.

Thank you very much.

JONATHAN KARL, ABC HOST: Senator Sanders joins me right now. Senator Sanders, congratulations. That was a big night.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you very much.

KARL: So you’ve won big out there in those three states. You’re still way behind in the delegate count, but does that -- what does this mean for the race? Does this mean you are absolutely --

SANDERS: Well --

KARL: -- going through to the --

SANDERS: What it -- Jonathan, what it means is we won three landslides last night. We won six out of seven contests in the last 11 days. We’ve got Secretary Clinton’s lead by a third during that period of time. A national poll just came out that had us 1 point ahead of Secretary Clinton, when we started 60 points behind. And every national and state poll that I have seen, virtually every one, has us defeating Donald Trump. CNN had us defeating him by 20 points.

Clearly we have the momentum. And I think at the end of the day we’re going to end up with more pledged delegates than Secretary Clinton. And then I think the super-delegates are going to have make a very difficult decision, and that is if a candidate wins in a state by 40 or 50 points, who are you going to give your vote to? And second of all, which candidate is better positioned to defeat Trump or any of the other Republican candidates? I think a lot of the super-delegates are going to conclude that it’s Bernie Sanders.

KARL: But you still need 73 percent of the delegates going forward, which is a huge --

SANDERS: No, we don’t. No, no, no.

KARL: Well --

SANDERS: No, I accept that. That is not the case. You’re assuming that every super-delegate who now supports Secretary Clinton will stay with her. You’re not taking into consideration the fact there are hundreds of delegates, super-delegates, who have not yet made a decision. We think we can win many of them.

And what we showed yesterday is in fact the momentum is with us; we think we’re going to do well in Wisconsin. We think we got a real shot in New York. And then we go out to California. You go out to Oregon. That’s the most progressive part of America. We think we’re going to do very well there.

So I will not deny for one second that we still remain the underdogs, but we have come a long, long way, you will have to concede, in the last 10 months. We do have a path toward victory.

KARL: There were Democrats saying it’s time for you to lay off Senator Clinton -- Secretary Clinton, keep this positive now, stop the attacks on her Wall Street ties, her super PAC, all of that. Are you going to start laying off or are you going to, you know, put the pedal to the metal here?

SANDERS: We’ve just won six out of the last seven contests; we have the momentum. We won three landslide victories yesterday. And the reason we’re doing well is that we are talking about the real issues facing the American people. And campaign finance is one of them. We have raised now 6 million individual campaign contributions averaging $27 a piece. That’s unprecedented in American political history. Secretary Clinton has super PACs; she has raised some $15 million at least from Wall Street, money from the fossil fuel industry, and the drug companies.

Do I think the American people need to know? That, is that an important issue? I think it is. Our vote’s on the wall: I voted against the war in Iraq. She voted for the war in Iraq. That’s an important issue. I am opposed to continuation of fracking. She supports fracking. Those are important issues. That’s what a campaign is about. I do not run negative ads, but clearly contrasting my position with Secretary Clinton’s is what a campaign is supposed to be about.

KARL: So you said in an interview this week that she -- suggested she may not be liberal enough to be in your cabinet. So let me ask you now after these wins: is she liberal enough to be your running mate? Would you consider her?

SANDERS: That’s speculation. Hillary Clinton is a person who has enormous -- I have enormous respect for, has a very distinguished career. But not into speculation right now. The reason, Jonathan, we are doing so well is we are talking about not speculation, the issues impacting the American middle class -- grotesque levels of income and wealth inequality, the decline of the American middle class, the fact that millions of kids are graduating college deeply in debt, the reality that climate change is a global crisis that we have got to deal with and have to take on the fossil industry. Those are the issues that I’m dealing with, not speculating at this point who my vice presidential nominee would be.

KARL: So Senator Sanders, we saw a situation this week where an ISIS leader was taken out by American ground troops, special forces on the ground in Syria. You are firmly opposed to boots on the ground. Was that something that raised concerns for you?

SANDERS: No, what I have -- no, that’s not quite accurate. What I have said is, in general, I support what President Obama is doing. Of course I am opposed to the United States getting involved in perpetual warfare in the Middle East. I think what the president is trying to do is to destroy ISIS, putting together the kind of coalition that we need. The Muslim troops have got to do the hard work. The United States should have special forces there. We should be there for air support and air attacks; we should be training the troops.

And the good news, as you know, is that ISIS now militarily in a significant way is in retreat. And they are losing some 30, 40 percent of the ground that they have controlled in Iraq over the last year. We’ve got to keep that up, and obviously we’ve got to do everything we can to pretend -- prevent a terrorist attack against us or our allies.

KARL: All right, Senator Sanders, thank you for joining us.

SANDERS: Thank you, Jonathan.

KARL: Coming up, the breaking developments in the Brussels attacks with new arrests and new charges. We’ll bring you the very latest on the investigation.

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